S2E16: More Than A Photo, It's A Moment With Kenzie Rae

Kenzie Ray.

Welcome to the Mom Boss Like a Boss podcast. Are you ready to ramble?

Oh, I am ready to ramble in the app, girl.

Amen. Yes. So tell us all about you. We need your life story. All the things. Who you are, your business, how you started it, how you got to where you are, all the things. Ramble as much as you like.

I got you. Um, my name is Kenzie. I go by Kenzie Ray. I am the owner of Photos by Kenzie Ray. I have about 10 years experience in the photography scene. And I am a true Madisonian. I was born on the East Side, North Side Madison. That's where I grew up. I take portraits. I do like maternity. I call the moments that I capture milestone moments. Any milestone moment in your life that needs capturing, that's what I take care of.

Beautiful. See, I love that. So what got what led you to photography?

I would definitely say I got my senior pictures taken in high school. And I was so in love with the way that I looked, and that that wasn't like normal for me to like feel that confident, you know, at that age. Um, and so I was just kind of like enamored by the fact that like I always like taking pictures. I feel like that was just like always a interest that I had. But that moment was like a pivot moment where I was like, oh, you can really make someone feel beautiful by taking a picture in a different light, you know, or like taking a different angle of them or just getting them comfortable enough to like send you their energy through the camera. And I know that kind of like sounds woo-woo, but like it's it's like definitely like such a rewarding feeling to like know that someone likes the way that they look because of you. Um, and so when I had that moment like happen to me, I bought a camera. I like immediately brought a camera like the next weekend with my my tax money, and then I started taking pictures. And it was weirdly enough though, I did start taking pictures of dogs. People were breeding them and they were trying to sell them, so I would take the pictures of for them. But yeah, I pivoted from there, and then once my friends grew older, you know, they started having babies, started getting married, and that's how I started building my clientele through word of mouth. So it's been a long time coming, but that moment in high school of how the photographer made me feel was definitely my pivot moment and what inspired me to be a photographer.

I love a good origin story. That's my lore. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I we've been friends for quite a while, so I I already kind of know your views. But for for the listeners, what are your views on AI photos and why?

I feel like this is such a controversial topic because everybody's using it. Everybody's using AI right now, and it's like whether you want to or not, it's like forced upon us. As a photographer, it's even forced upon us. Like in Lightroom, there's situations where you need to remove something, or like maybe your image is too grainy and doesn't look right, so you need to denoise it. And these are both features that use AI without. I mean, obviously you consent to it, right? But you're not typing into a prompt, so you're not really thinking about it. However, with the artificial intelligence being used as like almost a supplemental intelligence, that's the part that I can't get behind. I feel like in the creative world, your creative intelligence is something that no one can take away from you, and it's not like anybody else's. So using AI to put something that was there that wasn't, I just feel like that's the part I can't get behind, you know? When you take a picture of a family, per se, like on Christmas, you're getting the moment, you're getting the environment, you're getting every single memory that that child is going to have from that moment. And you're all capturing that within one picture. When you use AI, it loses the integrity and the intimacy and the actual like meaning behind that moment. Because now you have a fake scene, you have things that weren't there. That's not even what mom looked like, you know. There's missing cellulite and whatever you're using AI to create, it's just the authenticity of that image and that memory and that moment, it's just no longer there. And that's what kind of upsets me about AI.

Getcha. And when you say that, I actually I didn't even think about it, but usually there's a story behind you know those authentically taken photos where it's like you can look back at it and then you can remember recall that day. Everything that led up to the photo, you can recall what happened after. You might even be able to remember, like, oh, so-and-so told a really funny joke, and then we were all laughing really, really loud, and that's where this particular shot came from. Like the memories that are embedded around that moment that is captured just can't be replicated with AI. Like, yeah, it might look cute, maybe. Yeah, but yeah, is that do you only want a cute picture, or do you want the cute picture and the experience and the memories that come with it? And I think that's the part that is it's it's like the life is being sucked out of everything when you're using AI for literally everything.

Everything absolutely. Yeah, and you know, that's the thing is we are in this moment of like everything is either convenience or we have to pay for it. You know, like well, monetarily, like we're paying for it in other ways, but we just see like I could pay a photographer, you know, something I have to save up for, or I can just type this into AI and not think about the consequences it has because I'm not directly paying it.

Right.

Um you're just thinking about like just the end result, and I just want the picture right here, right now. You're not thinking about everything that's gonna go into it, and then the return, like the emotional return, especially if for like business photos, for example, like your headshots, you know, you're gonna think of like, oh, that day was really stressful. I was late, you know, the photographer was stuck in traffic, but we made it and they came out amazing, yeah, you know, and I invested into my business and this, that, and the other. Like, again, it's the experience around it that oh yeah, you know, really make that really just adds to the human, uh human journey when you think about it.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, uh to add to your point with your the business photos, that's a perfect opportunity to network yourself, to find other like-minded people. And I feel like having less human interaction is what has us so cooked right now because we aren't learning anymore. You know, I mean, yeah, it's artificial intelligence, so it's doing everything for us, right? And so we have shut our minds off to learning. So like we talk to less people, we hear less stories. I just feel like photography in its core was meant to pass stories along and keep people connected. Um so yeah, that's my that's my beef, I guess.

It just takes the humanness out of it.

Exactly.

Because like I think, you know, before we had internet and books and all of that, what did we do? How did we pass on knowledge? We told stories. Right. And then we had photos that could tell those, you know, like those um, what is it? Like those stories from like the 1600s, 1700s, or however, you know, whatever long ago, we can look back and just you know, ponder and look at the the history we have and be like, huh, I wonder why that was in style. I wonder why they dressed like that. But it's it's just stories in a visual aspect. But when it's made up from AI, which can't make anything new, you know, it can't take it like human ingenuity, ingenuity, whatever the word is. Human creativity, that's what we're gonna say. Human creativity. Like we create new things all the time. We see a problem, we fix it. Whereas AI just takes what's already out there and it and it's just like here's something that's kind of like that, but you know, it's not exactly what you're looking for. And then it again, it just sucks the life out of it.

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like, what are our babies gonna think of us or like our grandbabies, our great grandbabies? If none of these moments are real, then how do they even get a sense of themselves and who they come from? So I don't know. Maybe that's me getting too deep and like sad into it, but I just I just feel that we have the chance to keep things as authentic as we can. And I think a lot of us are like fumbling that bag.

Yeah. When you say it like that, it makes me think that the the mission of our generation, because we're like smack dab in the middle of everything.

Oh, yeah.

It should be bring back human storytelling because everything is.

Yeah, bring back humanity, like go touch grass and go talk to somebody. Like that's what we need to do. Smile at a stranger, right? Say hello when they walk by, like, it's okay.

All right. In your opinion, what kind of vibe is a business giving when they use AI photography?

Um for lack of better terms, honestly, Taylor, I feel like lazy. Like I just feel like it shows that you didn't want to take the time to either A do it yourself and learn how to do it, or B outsource and pay somebody for, you know, the things that they specialize in and deserve to be, you know, paid and utilized for. So I just I see it and I try to sympathize, but it's pretty, it's pretty difficult for me. I'm not gonna lie. It's just, you know, there's Canva, and I I do understand that Canva uses some AI, but I mean there's other things. There's there's so many resources for small businesses and businesses in general. And like I said, networking. Go talk to somebody, see if you can trade a service to, you know, help with branding and your graphics or you know, whatever that you need. I I'm just gonna keep going back to the fact that I think we just need to talk to each other more.

Right.

Okay, I volunteer is tribute for anybody who wants to trade a service for branding.

Oh my gosh. I volunteer's tribute. If if I can help somebody else not pay for something while not paying for something, please, like I I will do it.

Right. Like, hey, if you ever need some help with your website or your brand and girl, you let me know. I will be the first one to volunteer. I volunteer's tribute. Exactly. I happily volunteer is tribute. So, how would you describe the like the pros and cons between using AI to create photos versus having a professional photo shoot with a photographer or even a DIY photo shoot like you were just talking about?

Oh, yeah.

I know that there's a market for the AI photos. I see people trying to do good with it. It's just, you know, as we were talking about before, it just takes the humanness out of it.

So that's why I'm like, oh. Yeah, yeah. So that's a big part. But, you know, the DIY, like that scene is insane. There's so much we can learn from, like, you know, when you were a kid, you looked up how to do, you know, how to ride a bike, how to do this, what's in my purse, because you're curious about what other people were, you know, carrying with them. Um, how to pack for a trip. Like, these are all things that like I know a lot of us growing up typed into YouTube. And at that time it wasn't AI helping us, right? Like, right. It was just us searching. It was us searching and other people posting on forums or whatever you used and sharing information. So, like, if you can afford a photo shoot, that is completely understandable. I can't afford a photo shoot most of the time. I think that that should be your indication that, hey, if I can't afford this and this is something that I really want, this is something I'm gonna teach myself because it's valuable and it's an investment that I should take in myself. Um I think that, you know, taking your own pictures is even if they're not perfect, is so much better than, you know, typing it into a search, uh, I'm sorry, typing it into a AI processor and then creating something that's not even there. Um, because then it gives your clients a false sense of who you are. You know, it doesn't depict who you are or what you do. Um, I don't know if you've seen the the ridiculous AI pictures of like food.

Like, and it like I always look at them extra hard because I'm like, that doesn't even look like food. Look at that.

And it doesn't even look appetizing, right? It looks so plastic and so fake and so rendered that you're like, do I want to eat here? You start thinking, like, what's put in my food? If they're, you know, maybe I shouldn't go so far to say that they're not, you know, putting care into other things in their business. But it just makes you kind of wonder what what else are they cutting corners on?

Right.

And especially for I think non-business owners who who don't understand what it's like to have to run a business when you're in the beginning stages and you're having to be able to empathize and sympathize and be like, okay, I understand, you know, being pulled in a million different directions. So you're like, okay, let me have this thing done quick. But for someone who hasn't had that experience, their first thought is, especially if they're against AI, they're like, oh my gosh, like all the things you said, you know, what if you know, if you're too lazy to make a flyer, you know, with Sharpie, you know, what care are you putting into your food? And that might not be true. Their logic just might be, hey, I just need something quick and this will do it quick. But with the the views on it are literally almost split straight down the middle. Although I think there's more it's leaning more towards anti-AI because I think people are just a lot of people are just sick of it, especially food. Because I'm like, oh my god, why does it not look like food? Why do I have to stare at it and that shrimp is like in a full circle? It's not it's always so weird looking.

Yeah, it's always so bad. And that's just the thing is it's so important to support your small and local businesses, right? And so if you would like to be supported and you cannot do something yourself, delegate it, find someone who can. And if you can't pay it like up front, if you can't afford it, like just have those conversations. If someone were to come up to me and be like, hey, I really need this done. I don't know who else to contact. This is my financial situation, um, and this is what I'm willing to, you know, offer or work with you on. I respect that so much more than someone who just thoughtlessly put it into AI and was like, here, make me look like everybody else in, you know, the world. It's not even a local thing. Everybody's stuff from all across the world looks the same. I was in the UK and all of the flyers for the food, for the services, everything that were AI all look the same as back here in America. Yeah, like it like it's not even just like a regional. Yeah, exactly.

And like how am I supposed to experience another culture if everyone's doing the exact same thing across the world using the exact same no?

Yeah, no. Exactly. And so that's another thing, right? Like with photography, if we want to tie it back into that, is if we're using AI to make pictures and memories, like, how are we going to remember like what cultures were here at this time?

Like history will is gonna be so messed up, like right, because AI can't you know, let's just say hypothetically, there's whatever culture. If we don't capture real images and real history about it, then AI can't just make that up on the spot. No, and like you know, it because it pulls from what's already out there. So if we don't record it, then this culture gets completely erased once everyone's forgotten about it.

It's like the conception. Oh my god. I didn't even think about that. I think we're uncracking a code here. Oh my gosh.

Exactly. Like every time I look at it and I think about it, I'm just like, we're we're on our way to Wally.

So we're no. Oh my god.

We gotta show that video to Ro to baby Ro. Like, like, okay, this is why we think for ourselves and we don't rely too much on too much technology.

I'm really counting on our generation and then also his generation. We gotta, we gotta do something together because I'm all for cute robots, but not needing cute robots, you know?

Exactly.

Like to a degree. Like that I remember right, like my teenage, right? Like back in my high school years, I think my dad got like a Ford Explorer or something like that. And I remember it talked randomly. And I was like, I was like, uh, why is the car talking? He's like, that's just what it does. You don't think that's cool? I'm like, no, I don't like when things talk to me when I'm not talking to them. That's kind of weird, right? Mind you, this is like over 10, 15 years ago, and I'm just like, yeah, no, I don't like when things randomly talk to me. I'm good with that. No, yeah, like Siri is one thing. If I'm talking to you, that's one thing. But don't just randomly start talking to me. Like, I've had Siri randomly start minding my business in the middle of a conversation, and I'm it's like, I'm sorry, I didn't catch that. And I'm like, Siri, I wasn't even talking to you. What are you talking about? You weren't supposed to catch that. Like, what is happening?

Oh, yeah, because you know, a lot of people, I'm sure, have you know, an Echo Dot or an Alexa or whatever, but you won't even say anything like remotely close to like any command name, and all of a sudden you can hear that it's like listening to you, and then all of a sudden shuts off. And it's like absolutely not. See, no, yeah, it freaks me out. No, I can't. I can't. And so I am so scared of a future like that. So instead of making AI pictures, just book me as a photographer so we can avoid that.

Exactly. Book Kenzie, like she's amazing at what she does. I've been wanting to get behind your camera, like just I've been in my poor era.

That's we've we've just been in our struggling era. Let's like, you know, we don't have to lie to kick it. We've just been struggling. I think everybody else has. We have such good moments, but then it's just like, oh, okay, life, thanks. Take me out again.

Right, right. Like when the freaking gas jumped up like 40 cents the other like last week. I was like, um, what happened?

I'm just gonna walk. I'm gonna buy a horse and just the horse is more expensive than the gas, though.

I think I'm just gonna walk.

Okay, yeah. I need to find some better shoes.

Exactly. Oh, so you've been you've been you've you've been a photographer for over a decade now. Um yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna know your answer. Do you think AI can replace human photographers?

Um, I I say no. Like in in technicality, if you really want to say yes, I guess so. Um, but if you want to bring it back down to the morals and the intention of what photography is here, like something that we found as a purpose for humans, like it was made for creativity and it was made for memories and history. And so I just don't feel like the feeling, the purpose, or even the creativity of it is I think that is all irreplaceable. So I don't believe like it's ever gonna replace it. I feel like people are going to use it in lieu of everything else. However, there's no replacing it. And I feel like a lot of people feel that way, even if they do use it. Um they like everybody knows what a photograph is for.

You know, that's a good content. idea for you. Yeah. If you think about it, like what we've been talking about, if you again this just randomly came to mind. Yeah. But no, if you if you did some content about like the value of real photography. Like you're talking about the memories and thing the the sense of accomplishment and the sense of joy that you're going to get from you know a photographer, you know, I did this. I put this outfit together. A photographer helped me get the right angle and really put me in the best light. Yeah. Naturally. Yeah. I feel like if you can really you know put forth the value of real photography, I think that would be great content for you. And then your content's all amazing. So thank you. No one can say it like you. So that's, you know, that's just a little content thought, you know, right there.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a really good idea.

Another thing that I think a lot of people don't think about when it comes to you know photo shoots and photography. Um no one really thinks about it there if unless until they know understand the value. But when you think about it, that's just more content. You can literally have someone filming behind the scenes of hey, watch how this campaign came together. Watch how this photo shoot came together. You know, look at the like that's more B role or whatever for you to make your life easier as far as marketing yourself and then telling your it's just more storytelling. Cause you because no one's going to sit here and listen to anyone literally tell their story of every little part you know from birth from birth to now but they're going to see your story play out as they watch you interact with the world and do things.

Yeah. Yeah that's true. That's a really good point and idea. I have just actually reached out to somebody to start making content for me. So um yeah I feel like people seeing behind the scenes is one thing but seeing how photographers work what they do with their bodies or their body language I should say how they interact with clients I think that is what people need to see more of because I think again like going back to the the beginning of this conversation I think people are just so afraid to like have interaction and you know booking let's say you do have the money for it well then you have to make sure that you you know you gel well or you vibe well with your your photographer otherwise your pictures are going to be awkward. You know they're going to be like school photos where you didn't want to be there but you had to be so yep. I I feel like a lot of people would benefit from seeing that photographers aren't scary people or seeing that I'm not you know a scary photographer at least and you know the the conversations and the stories that can be told and had by booking a photographer.

Right. Hey I volunteer as tribute for that too if you need some babies like hey if you're like hey Tay I got this shoot coming up you know can you film some some stuff for me? Heck yeah I can I am there.

I keep my schedule flexible for a reason for the listeners I just want everybody to know this was our plan to just talk about how we're going to collab forever. That is exactly right I'm always looking to collab whenever I can especially Ken's you know Ken's is also so all right now we're in the the motherhood part of it so first time mom how has motherhood changed you as a woman and describe your experience so far because I think he's almost one right yes oh my god it's rocked me girl I mean I to put it simply it has rocked me short story long I just think that when I was pregnant like the anticipation of it was just like so intense and so beautiful you know my body was growing this amazing human being and then he got here and it's not that I wasn't like just as in love but I couldn't protect him anymore in my stomach like in the womb you know like he was out here and I had to keep him alive out here like outside of my body um and that disconnect was like such a hard feeling and it's something that I still am struggling with. And I don't know if that's just like the definition of postpartum but just feeling like this beautiful thing that I work so hard on now is like out into the world with so many variables and so many scary things. It's a lot it's a lot of feelings and now like you know two things can be true at one time like it's a lot of things and he's doing so much you know and I'm so proud of him and as scared as I am I am so proud and have so much pride in my son and just I don't want to get emotional but get as emotional as you want it's an emotional thing when you become a mama every single thing that's been coming for his birthday party has been making me cry. I can't believe that it's already been a full 12 months he's been earth side for this long it it is so mind blowing. And you know all the things that I used to do for my clients um you know labor and delivery and stay there at the hospital for I don't know I think I stayed at the hospital for like 16 hours one time for a client um and or like just taking their maternity pictures last minute or I took maternity pictures in a hospital because she was you know bedridden or at least hospital ridden at that time. So just things like that where I did them you know out of the goodness of my heart. But as a mom now I realized how important those things that I did were to my clients. I just value the service of photography and the service of someone making art of your moments a lot more because they they change so quickly like my son looks nothing like he did the minute I saw him for the first time. And he, you know, if you think about all that's elapsed from that time you know that time to now like it is overwhelmingly sad about how much we could have missed you know if there wasn't photography.

That is true they grow so fast so fast it's it's insane.

Yeah like you know weeds it's so bad and I'm all for him being his own person but I also just want to keep them little forever and I just want to keep them in my back pocket and like no stay tiny and huggable and holdable you know like my oldest is nine now and it feels like it went by so fast.

And I'm just like and then I and then I look up and I'm like there's four of y'all okay wait a minute like whoa and yeah it literally just goes by so so fast. Whenever I look back at some of the videos and stuff and I'm and the pictures I just get I just smile and kind of tear up a bit because I'm like oh my baby's got so big so fast and then it's like one day you just look over and it's like well wait a minute you weren't that big were you always this big like you aren't always that big like where where did that come from right like I was looking at my five year old the other day and I was like wait a minute I was like I don't remember you being this tall I'm like you when did this happen?

Well and you know if we use AI for everything how are we gonna remember what exactly our babies looked like or you know how are we gonna track those things anymore or you know God forbid your baby gets sick or something happens like we need to preserve those things like those are things that get us authentic memories yeah those are things that get us through the hardest times you know and on the flip side if you think about it when you're growing up how good did it feel when you're like oh this is a picture of me when I was a baby and my mom was playing with me or this is a picture of me when I was you know five years old and I remember this because we played with dinosaurs while this lady took our pictures or you know the that sense of belonging and feeling like you have a place and you have memories that root you back to a good moment especially in a really hard time like right now like that is just so important.

Right.

And then even if you don't remember hearing the stories of your childhood behind the pictures too because I think there's a picture of me somewhere on a horse I don't remember it but I was on a horse at some point as a kid apparently yeah well then but then that's cool though because then you're like oh well if I've done that once I could I could do it again or you know it makes you question like you know where did I lose yeah yeah where did I lose that interest or you know is that something that I want to be interested in again or you know it it's just it gives you so much with all the things that our brain is processing it it brings us back to the things that matter and the memories and you know it's so easy to forget something but it's not when you have actual proof of it happening.

Right exactly like I have we have vague memories of our childhood.

You know there's some people who might be like oh yeah I remember this very clearly whereas you know I have the memory of a goldfish with little flashes here and there's a my son is like Mega Mind I that's what I call him because he he has a big head and I swear that's where my brain lives now I have none of it left he's taken it Mega Mind not Mega Mind anything oh I'm just convinced that all babies and all kids have big heads because my kids all got big heads too like I don't think I've seen any kid that doesn't have big heads some at some point in their childhood like they we've we all gotta grow into our heads that's what it is I I swear Taylor and promise you it's because they're taking our brain kids are taking our brain yep that's why you walk into a room and you're just like why did I come in here?

And then you walk out and you're like oh that's right and then you walk back and you're like dang it why did I come in here exactly that is it's like the story of my life like walk into the I waste at least an hour a day walking into the same room trying to remember why I went in there.

And then you walk into the other room and you're like wait was it in here? Right and then it's like what was I looking for and then it's in your hand you're like oh my god I can't the struggle just starting to gaslight yourself how has mother Zach will you just gaslight yourself into believing like no I wasn't looking for anything how has motherhood changed your view on owning a business versus working for someone else and your career um the career side of your life overall yeah I feel like this one kind of just put everything into existence for me because I feel like I never really wanted to work for someone else and I feel like a lot of people feel that way of course because it's hard when you work really hard long hours you work really hard at something and you feel what you're doing really isn't giving into your morals or your values or the bigger picture for you. I feel like you're getting such a small slice of reward for yourself when you're working for somebody else and then you're just working for somebody else's dreams right so I feel like that's why a lot of us have such a hard time working for you know corporations and you know bigger places. Um but when motherhood you know happened upon me and I started going back to what happened upon me. Motherhood happened upon me can we cut that you said that came for me when motherhood happened upon me on that fateful fall day it was a fall day Taylor no Taylor can you please like save that clip and like cut it oh no that when motherhood happened upon me when I became a mom you gotta cut it um but when I became a mom and the like the feelings of just oh my god I lost my train of thought Taylor see this is what I'm talking about the child came when motherhood happened upon me the child took my brain all right let's circle back circle back so when motherhood happened upon you how how did it change your view you know owning a business versus like working for someone else and career life in general right right so I was talking about like the big guys it sucks to work for him right so when I became a mom it was just really clear to me that my family was not as high as a priority that it should have been because I was worried about you know waking up for you know a certain time to be at work I had to be there I was committed to be there for a certain amount of time um when I was breastfeeding it was super difficult because you know my supply started going down because I wasn't able to pump as much as you know he would have demanded it it was just like happenstance after happenstance where things would happen and I'm just like this is why I can't work for somebody else. And you know it's never because I wanted to stay home. I never want to just not do anything right I have so much on my plate that I just feel like if I have something I really care about, which is my family and my business, I need to be focusing on those things and those dreams. I don't think that contributing to somebody else is beneficial to me, especially in the long run. Sure to save up the funds that I need but it's beginning to come to a point where I'm missing those memories um and being a photographer I'm also missing the chance to take those memories like moms can't win in this society.

It's always what it's either why don't you contribute or you know oh why don't you why are you letting someone else raise your kid and it's like what do you want from me?

Yeah you get one or the other yeah and this is not me bashing the person you know the mom that went back to work and she loves what she does and she has a passion for what she does. And I think that's just it it's what you have a passion for right and a lot of people don't have a passion for what they do for their nine to five I sure didn't I really don't care that much about chemistry and science do I think it's needed absolutely do I think that there are chemists and scientists that can take that over that big girl big boy job for me yes absolutely I my passion is my family and taking pictures and making sure that other families have memories so it's really just like what your core values are and what your passions are. But I definitely think that motherhood changed the way that I look at that and accepting that photography is a real job. Being a mom is a real job. It's not something that I I feel guilt about anymore you know not fitting into a nine to five I don't think see what when's the last time I had a regular job was like 2022 I think was the last time I was working at a regular job because it just got to the point where scheduling wise I was just like I can't I can't do it.

Health like it was affecting my health and then on top of that it was it was taking me away from you know my family and it was just killing me inside. I hated that I hated that really hate that and then you know when the school calls guess who they call they call me so that's why that's why I keep my schedule flexible now even if the even if the income's not where I want it to be it's like well my kids come first my family comes first and those jobs don't seem to don't seem to be empathetic towards that like to a point they might if you have a good manager but it's always to a point because then it gets to well you know something something about your commitment to the company and it's like well family is my first commitment like you know I hate to break it to you but they're gonna call the police on me if I don't you know take care of my kids.

Right.

And you know like you want to be committed to your company.

Yeah and I know that there are plenty of people who you know don't want kids and that's completely fine. I feel like the best thing you know that if people that don't want kids don't have kids that's great. But I just feel like we're in a you know we're in a time that we know that we repopulate right like that is common sense common knowledge people are gonna have babies we're having less babies but a lot of people want a family that is the outcome that a lot of people are hoping for and people have families so I just don't know why it's such like a crazy controversial subject of like what somebody wants to do when they have a family and why they would prioritize their family first. And you know this is probably gonna get like if I kept going down this wormhole it would get a little too political but it it's just insane that we're not kinder to each other and we don't we aren't more empathetic and also kinder to ourselves because like we as humans have proved that we make what we need to make work and you know we survive our children are okay and so like we should really just be trusting our own judgment more.

I think there was something I was gonna say to that and I forgot what it was. Well that makes me feel better for losing my train of thought earlier so oh girl my brain shuts off like mid-sentence multiple times a day multiple times a day I'll literally be in the middle of a sentence and then be like just dead silence because I'm like I forgot what I was going constantly what was it it was something recurring I'm gonna remember it dog on it working industry it was something about that oh yeah okay see I remember now okay I I actually I've heard a lot of people um and even a friend of mine say that some of their gripes is that the leadership and their come and like the businesses or companies they work for is like oh hey these this person or these people have kids so now the people without kids have to pick up the slack and I'm like no no no that's not right though. You know like that doesn't mean you put extra work on people who don't have kids that because they still have lives they're still human. I'm like we just need to treat each other like humans because remember we're not robots we have to eat we have to sleep and you know despite what a lot of people you know who don't have any joy in their lives would think you have to have some kind of joy outside of the stress of life you know like good lord go play the video game like go to the concert go to the bar go to the party go to the event like do something joyful that brings you joy crochet knit whatever it is you gotta have some kind of joy because if there's no joy and you're just literally wake up handle your responsibilities eat sleep like that's such a grand life nobody wants that and you're gonna end up just feeling dead inside like you gotta have joy as well. And I think that's that's where you know my grief with society, especially in the US, of the way things are, it's like it's like, why are we not empathetic towards humanity? We're all humans. You know? And so instead of just expecting us to be like either work or basically just hey do these things because you're an adult and that's it. Like, no, find joy too. Like I can't stand how it's legal for salaried, you know, positions to be like, hey, you're required to work this amount of hours, but because they're salary, they're typically working more hours and they're not paid for it. They're not compensated. So they end up technically making less than those in lower positions. And I'm like, and I was just thinking about it this morning, I'm like, that how many qualified leaders are not in leadership positions because of that? You know, like the good leaders, the ones who actually would care about their employees' well-being and you know boost morale. How many people are avoiding those those positions of wood leadership just because it's not it doesn't make no financial sense.

I just absolutely I have definitely avoided positions where I knew that I was going to have to have more of like a time commitment or you know I would have to like not saying that I don't want to work hard but like work harder than I needed to you know because I'm a woman or you know I don't have a college background that's actually something that I had encountered at my one of my last jobs. I didn't get a position. I was totally qualified for it. I didn't get the position because I did not have the schooling that the other candidate had. It was a paneled interview with like multiple you know people interviewing me at one time. It lasted two it was two hours and seriously they decided that I had all the qualifications um but I didn't go to school for that subject um so I I wasn't chosen um and you know I was stopped by them in that case but there has been times where I just I'm like photography will get me through it you know because I can't dedicate more of myself to someone else to somebody else's goal um just because that's what society says that I need to do and I feel like I am more helpful and worthy or valuable in my community by actually being in my community rather than working for the big guy that kind of like doesn't do much for the community. So it's yeah it's a whole thing but it I feel so much better now being a photographer working for myself because I just feel like not only am I giving to myself but I'm also giving back definitely get that we we gotta we gotta collab on some events and some some activities in the community. For sure what advice would you give to a new or aspiring mom who has or aspires to have a business I would definitely say just don't give up and don't look back because the more you give up on yourself and the more that you like backpedal or start to lose you know the confidence in yourself that's when you lose you miss out on that time right you know every time that you give up every time that you put something down especially if it's yourself it's gonna be that much harder to pick up when you finally decide that you have time for it. And so this doesn't mean like just push through if you're struggling or like just add more to your plate like this means asking for help this means delegating work you know leaning on people there are so many people in most people's lives that are willing to do much more than we realize um you know like whether that means like putting a a Facebook post out and saying like you know I need help moving or I need this I need that you'd be so surprised like what the community or what the people around you in your life are willing to do. And it's just to see you thrive and whether that's as a mom in your business or both like there's a lot of people especially in the motherhood community that really just want to see each other thrive and because they know they know how hard it is. So yeah I guess that would be my main two pieces of of advice is keep going and don't give up but at the same time like ask for help and let other people be contributing factors to that. Because even if you don't do it 100% by yourself, you did that you still have the medal at the end of the day because you figured it out you came on top and you didn't let you know the day overtake you. So I feel like that's something that confuses a lot of us in momhood is we think we need to wear the cape and do it all and not ask for help, not struggle, put a smile on our face while we're doing it. But I'm still a good mom if I'm doing a podcast for my business and my grandma is watching my sleeping baby. It's okay. I'm still a really good mom. I'm still a really good business owner because I'm investing in myself so I think that's just things we need to remind ourselves of is you can do it but also let people help you.